land warrior an expensive dud???

[lem096]

hay whats this about land warrior being a dud system?

heard that opheval tests are not good and that the soldiers are cursing the system for being too heavy and that they would rather having that extra weigh in the form of ammo not a useless system that dosen't make them more effective fighting units....

any info as to if the system has been fielded in action?

[Collo]

Do you know why it's most likely a dud?

It's most likely due to the fact every time so nerd/geek from MIT and the like think that by sticking as mich crap as you can and as much techno shit into a weapon it will make it better and save lives. I don't know where to start handing out tissues for the bullshirt cough.

Give me a .303/ Springfield 03/ KAR 98 or M4 Carbine anyday.

[lem096]

sorry should include a pic

[Collo]

It's still a nerdy atleration that shouldn't be.

[lem096]

agreed the US don't understand that to make better soldiers you need the best training on the simplest things

lesson learned from the SASR they don't shoot thunder bolts from their ass they just do everything so professionally that they get such great results

you just need squad comms reliable riffle with sight to match good field pack 1 gps per squad or platoon rather (motorized or cav will have theirs in the vehicles) and a shit load of solid training.

the last thing you want to worry about is running low on batteries and missing even just 1 magazine for a cpu, its a good thing that US grunts are letting the higher authorities know this....     

[Collo]

Yeah the SASR are the best because their training is second to none.  Battles are won by men not some cpu designed in the basement of some geek.

[Crusty]

Please explain to this old fossil about this 'Warrior' system. To me, a 'Warrior' is a superb beast of amoured Infantry fighting vehicle. As an aside, stuff the Springfield. I would match the S.M.L.E. No4 for accuracy, reliability and ruggedness against any other long arm any day, in any conditions!!

[Collo]

Come on' the 03 is beautiful solid, accurate. If I could have taken her out bush, I would be one happy chappy.

[lem096]

interesting Aussie designed scope that allows you to take a shot from around corners

best thing is no batteries required just put the lens over the end of you scope

[Collo]

Yeah that's not bad.

[Elwingflys]

I love the shooting around corners one.
As to the first one...Aren't the guys carrying enough stuff? Some of them look so weighed down it is a wonder thay can walk. The packs on the comunications guys are so big they couldn't get under cover to save their butt. They look like they are carrying a VW on their back. Might as well paint a target on that pack.
Tech is great, but they ought to send some of the designers out to a live fire range to test it sometimes, I think.

[Collo]

As lem said, the last thing we need our lads worrying about; is their battery too low. And yes Elfie they carry enough crap now why do we need to add more junk that will most likely hinder them more than it will help.

[Elwingflys]

Yea, the first time I saw that I could just see the poor guy trying to get under barbd wire or under something for cover. Of course the best cover may be the monster on his back, He can hide behind that. Communications will be litterally shot to hell but what ya gonna do?

[the gunny]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4215715.html

There's a half-billion dollars invested in the gear hanging off the heads, chests and backs of the soldiers of Alpha company. Digital maps displayed on helmet-mounted eyepieces show the position of all the men in the unit as they surround a block of concrete buildings and launch their attacks. Instead of relying on the hand signals and shouted orders that most infantrymen use, Alpha company communicates via advanced, encrypted radio transmissions with a range of up to a kilometer. It's more information than any soldiers have ever had about their comrades and their surroundings.

But as Alpha kicks in doors, rounds up terror suspects and peals off automatic fire in deafening six-shot bursts, not one of the soldiers bothers to check his radio or look into the eyepiece to find his buddies on the electronic maps. "It's just a bunch of stuff we don't use, taking the place of useful stuff like guns," says Sgt. James Young, who leads a team of four M-240 machine-gunners perched on a balcony during this training exercise at Fort Lewis, Wash. "It makes you a slower, heavier target."

[101st Airborne]

Fantastic Gunny. Electronic maps that show where his buddies are around him beamed back via GPS, heat seeking and infra red satellite connections.
The first time I became aware of such battlefield technology was the movie "Behind enemy lines". They could watch the downed pilot's movements on land from an aircraft carrier off shore.
Another was "Black Hawk Down".

[Collo]

Ignore movies and ignore technology like this.

What soldiers need is better armour, more ammo, better boots, better helmets, better training options, the list goes on.  Why can't we focus on the core needs rather than this crap technology which will need a techie with no military experiance get sent with these lads just to fix this techno crap when it breaks down.

[101st Airborne]

Hmm, that said, if I was on guard duty at an ammo or fuel dump in the dark of night with no moon, I think that the ability to see anyone creeping up would be fantastic.

[Collo]

It's called NVGs' mate.

[101st Airborne]

No mate it isn't simply Night Vision goggles. That's old technology from the sixties.
We are talking about heat seeking images being transmitted via satellite to an individual soldier who can read an electronic map on his helmet showing where all enemies are.

What an out of this world dream it would have been for this soldier looking at you from my avatar in 1944

As I said, fantastic!

[Collo]

Oh hec, why don't we have a dedicated satellite for each section then.

While we are at it, we can have a techie follow the combat section around to fix the helmets when they break down. I am sure that the techie can function in an Infantry section with no problems. 

Thermo NVG's good, NVG on speed = bad.

[101st Airborne]

Collo, being flipant about anything that protects our soldiers and makes them superior on the battlefield to the enemy, is not your normal style.
I had to look twice to see it was you.

[Collo]

What I am getting at mate is that all these technical advancements a majority of the time get in the way. Instead of going off and buying all this new stuff we can spend more time and money training our lads. Giving them skills before handing them the techno junk. A soldier who can rely on his training to get the job done is a far more superior soldier than one who relies on technology.

I guess you could say the need to learn to walk before they learn to run.

[Elwingflys]

Exactly!

The tech stuff is great in its place. But advanced tech stuff is delicate. I know, I used to build some of it. It WILL break down in heavy battlefield conditions, if not sooner. Soldiers who have only trained to depend on their gadgets Will be at a definite disadvantage against their non-techi enemies. If you have had rigorous training in proper military skills without the super gear, when it does go you will be in a much better position to carry on

[Collo]

We are also fighting an enemy who is using weapons dating back to world war two. As always the core basic of any army is not technology, but training. We need soldiers who can think, act and know what to do when the s#@t hits the fan. We need soldiers who can rely on each other and have the confidence themselves to get the job. Despite of the great advantages of having the ability as shown by these new ideas, the enemy will sooner or later find a way to counter that, and then we counter them and so on and so forth. It will get to a point that we are too busy having our front line Infantry soldiers learning the new ins and outs of a new system each month they will loose touch of the basics.

[Elwingflys]

That's how we drove the British nuts, a lot of what would now be considered guerrilla tactics and trickery when we were having trouble making like a real army. Now a days, that is almost all anyone uses it seems like. It takes good training to be flexible enough to deal with surprises and things breaking or otherwise going wrong.. Depending too much on tech can make you a sitting duck if anything goes wrong. Tech should just be icing on the cake, not the cake itself.



PS: Er....I think the ribbons are breeding.